Ixchell Reyes 0:00
Are you curious about the world of AI and language teaching? We’re discussing the top 10 questions that came up during the TESOL 25 conference.

Brent Warner 0:23
Welcome to the DIESOL podcast, where we focus on developing innovation in English, the second or other language. I’m Brent Warner, Professor of ESL at Irvine Valley College, and I’m here with the wonderful Ixchell Reyes, award winning educator in innovation and professional development, specializing in teacher training with an ed tech focus. Ixchell, how are you? Oh,

Ixchell Reyes 0:43
my goodness, still recovering from TESOL. Good Energy, actually. How are you

Brent Warner 0:48
good so on the last episode, we had a little bit of a dark intro. We were talking to their friends, and I was like, Oh, we’re not sure what’s going to happen, but something happened. So what happened?

Ixchell Reyes 1:00
Oh, people came together and raised the funds on your initiative to get me there. And I was blown away. We were both blown away three hours and I was funded. And actually, yeah, so this episode, I want to say thank you to everyone who came together, even just the words of encouragement, meant a lot. So thank you so much for for getting to have both of us. Otherwise it’d be Brent by himself. Different

Brent Warner 1:33
conversation. No, it was great. Also, you know, it was so it got funded so fast that I didn’t even have time to, like, go and share the word on other platforms. I just put it up on LinkedIn, basically. And then I was like, boom, right there. And so, so, yeah, so thank you to other people. I said I didn’t even have time to, you know, donate anything. It’s like, totally taken care of. So, all good. But thank you. Thank you for everybody. And so this is not exactly a TESOL 25 recap episode. Obviously, we had a lot of, you know, lot of good conversations. Really good for me. Ixchell I’m not sure about you, but I was really happy I got to spend a lot of time kind of catching up with people, or meeting people that I’ve met online but haven’t really talked to very much in person, so that kind of the social aspect was great. Yeah,

Ixchell Reyes 2:24
the last time I was at TESOL, it was in 2017 so since then, you know, that’s what, eight years most? Yeah, yeah, that’s eight years ago. And so there’s, I’ve met so many new people throughout those eight years. And I think one of the highlights was meeting Theresa, who came all the way from Spain. Oh, yeah, yeah. Like, and it’s just like, oh my goodness, all these friends I’ve made, and people that we’ve collaborated with, and again, just catching up and

Brent Warner 2:58
touching base with people, yeah, well, and not only that, and we had some of our, you know, regular DIESOL crew people, right? So you know, many people who have been on the show. So you know, dia mudra was on here, Denise Maduli-Williams,

Ixchell Reyes 3:14
Friends of the pod,

Brent Warner 3:15
Yeah, friends of the pod. We hit. We haven’t have, we haven’t had her on the show yet, but Kristi Reyes has been a long supporter. We met…

Ixchell Reyes 3:25
Yes – Kristi, we met our old CATESOL Friends. Khulan…

Brent Warner 3:28
Yeah, whole groups of people, the Teacher Think Aloud podcast,

Ixchell Reyes 3:36
Yeah!

Brent Warner 3:38
We could spend the whole time just saying, you know, names, names of different people. And so, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. If you did come out and say hello, plus the new people we met, and all the new people really great. But I think what we’re going to switch over to is some of the conversation. So one Ixchell, did you notice how many AI sessions there were this time?

Ixchell Reyes 3:56
Holy Moly, I there was like, AI on pretty much everything.

Brent Warner 4:03
It was like it was tons and tons. So there was, I mean, probably half of the sessions were AI stuff, the other half were, like advocacy stuff, which is great too, but, but it was really interesting because, you know, you and me being in these kind of, like, techie nerds, and then, like, for years and years, it was like there was no sessions on tech ed, tech stuff at all. And now it’s just like, everyone!

Ixchell Reyes 4:24
Which one do I which one do I go to? Which one do I go to? Which one is better? Obviously, ours (laughter) Just kidding.

Brent Warner 4:32
We did have a good time, though, with ours and and we had, we had a full house, y’know, standing room only. There are people sitting on the floor up front. So thank you for everybody who came to our session there. That was the last session on Friday. But and then I did, we did a few other ones too. So I did a couple. You did. You did another one with us. Great times, everybody. Thank you. So our plan is we had all these AI conversation. Conversations, you know, during, during the sessions, and, you know, in the hallways and everything. And we realized, oh, there’s so many people that just haven’t even really been exposed to the right to some of the basic conversations. And not to say it’s basic, but it’s like, what’s going on now with AI and so,

Ixchell Reyes 5:16
or maybe, maybe even they’ve heard of AI, but this is the first time that they got to go to a conference where it’s being applied and they’re able to see it in action. So many questions came up, and so we’re going to talk about some of them. Yeah, the ones that came up the most.

Brent Warner 5:32
Alright, let’s jump in. Alright, alright. So the first one, and Ixchell we’re going to have to move fairly quickly through some of these. But the first question is, what’s which is the best AI to use lot that actually came up a fair amount, right? Yeah. What do you recommend?

Ixchell Reyes 5:50
Well, I know you like chat GPT, but I tend to go through gem with Gemini and copilot. And my answer is, really test. Test them all out. It’s kind of like using a dictionary, right? You’re not going to stick to just one dictionary with that dictionary’s definition, so you’re going to go through several versions, and then you’re going to check two of them and see which one gives you what you want,

Brent Warner 6:12
Right, right. That really is the answer is, you need to go play around with them. So whether that’s chatGPT, whether that’s Claude, claude.ai

Copilot, Perplexity…

You know, there’s, there’s a lot of conversation coming up these days around Po. I mean, all of these things, there’s just tons of different ones, right? And so, and then some of them also just pull from some of the bigger ones too. So, so you do have to be a little bit careful, but explore and just see what you like. I think that is the best answer by far for this one. And some of them do better at like image generation or the types of image generation you’re looking for. Some of them are really good with text and all these things, but it’s really hard just to give a total flat answer, because they change with every update, and it’s like, oh, now it feels like this one is better than that one, right?

Ixchell Reyes 7:05
And that’s okay. Dictionaries do the same,

Brent Warner 7:08
Yeah, yeah. And so feel free to explore. There’s no, no great answer, but you know, I would say, try two or three – try one or two, really, for a month, and just see how they respond to how you’re working with them, and then switch up to another one and rotate some out, and then you’ll kind of settle in, you know, within a few months on like, Hey, this is where I kind of tend to like to be,

Ixchell Reyes 7:31
All right. The other question is, does the free version of whatever you want to insert in here let you do whatever you want? (laughter) Didn’t want to say “X”

Brent Warner 7:41
Yeah, Does the free version of (humming noise) let you do (humming noise), (laughter) yeah. And that is the same type of answer to it is, a lot of people ask these technical questions, right? It’s like, can you do this and this? Can you do that and that? And the answer same, unfortunately, the same answer is you’re going to have to go in and look right. And so with chat GPT, for example, like it does now have the speaking function for in the free version, but you have to be logged in, right? So if you wanted to speak and have chats back and forth, you can do that on the free one, but you can’t do it on the public facing, like, no login version, right? And so, so some of these things, it’s like, I can give you an answer right now, but if you’re listening to the answer a month from now, that changes change. Yeah.

Ixchell Reyes 8:33
And so the times the free the free version may just get cut and become the paid version.

Brent Warner 8:39
So, yeah, so I definitely understand the question, like, because it came up a lot, right? And I understand it in the moment, but the The truth is, like, as soon as you answer it, you’re, you’re gonna have to look on for the next answer, because, because they switch these things so often. So do explore a little bit. Go look at, you know, they all have these pages that tell you what’s available inside of the free version, usually, and so, so go and take a look. But do explore with it. Alright. Next question is… This one is super common, so we’ve been talking about this one since day one. But how do I help my colleagues or institution who resists AI to see the benefits? That’s a big – whoo, I’m glad I asked the question so you can answer it. (laughter)

Ixchell Reyes 9:26
Well, again, we are only in control of our own actions. And I think sometimes, if people have the have blinders on, no matter how much you sort of tell them the benefits, they may not see it till they’re ready to see it. So my advice is always continue to do what you do and then show the student work. Show the student response to it, collect, collect answers from the students, and then display that. Because you can’t argue with that. And I think oftentimes it’s my students who go and tell someone else. Us about it, and then that sort of hooks the colleague, or whomever, and then that colleague then comes. Hey, I noticed this. I noticed that. But I think the best proof that this works, or that is a possibility, is the student work, and without that, I think it’s it’s harder to win someone over. But I don’t think it’s necessarily our burden to convince everyone. I think now it’s so widely it’s in every app that we use that eventually they’re going to have to know how to use it. You can’t really run away from it. So what are your thoughts on that Brent cuz, that’s that’s been my approach these days.

Brent Warner 10:42
Yeah, I think, I think that’s a good approach in general. So like that, that’s like, word gets around that the students like what’s going on inside of your class, for example, that that can be one way. Another one is if you do PD sessions on your campus or help your other colleagues. You know, you don’t necessarily always need to talk about it as an AI thing, but if you’re getting into like, Hey, this is, this is some of the work I’m doing, this is what I did with my students. And then the question is, like, Well, how did you do that? And the answer is, well, I did it with such and such a tool. Then it’s like, okay, I wasn’t thinking, you know, because so many people have their blocks up immediately as soon as you say AI. But it’s like, here’s what I’m doing in class. And then it’s like, well, how do you do that? And then it’s like, well, I’m using chat GPT, or I’m using this different tool, or whatever. And that is where they start to go, Oh, I didn’t know it could do that. Oh, I didn’t recognize it that those were possibilities. And so I think that one can be, uh, one way to to start to see some of the benefits. And then I think also I had another answer to it as well, but I’m blanking at the moment so, but I do think that’s right, is like one work with your students, just kind of keep moving forward to, you know, don’t try to push it on people, but like, let them see it when the when the time comes up, and then, you know, just keep moving in the ways that you think are best, and…

Ixchell Reyes 12:08
Just wait for the second pandemic.

Brent Warner 12:10
Oh my god, yeah… hmmm

Ixchell Reyes 12:12
Just kidding. Alright. So another important question people asked is, is it okay for my students to use, and what about their privacy? So valid question.

Brent Warner 12:28
I think the first answer to this is you need to check with your institution, no matter what, right, like, that’s that’s going to be the very first one, because a lot of teachers just want to say, hey, log into ChatGPT, right? And it’s like, hold on a second. Their privacy is not protected in chat GPT, there are ways. So for example, if your students log in and they go click on temporary chat, then that means, you know, at least, at least the company open AI claims that they’re not training on that data. But there are other organizations. So for example, if you have an institutional Microsoft account, or, you know, like that’s actually made through your school, then that will be locked down because it has, like, FERPA rights that it needs to align with. Or, you know, depending on where you are, Copa, HIPAA rights, all those kinds of things. And there are also some tools like play lab. So if you go to play lab.ai, that is one that is built specifically for schools, and yes, it is taking from, you know, the AI like chat, GPT or Claude, or whatever else it is, but it’s built inside of a system that is FERPA compliant, so you at least know that the information that’s going in there is protected for your students.

Ixchell Reyes 13:51
And I do think that we always should have the conversation of what students are entering in there, just so students are aware. And and having those guidelines maybe up on, on a on a bulletin board, or something like that. I’ve now done that for my last couple of classes, because it just should be something that that students, um, leave your institution knowing.

Brent Warner 14:16
That’s a great point. Yeah, if you can make posters, or, you know something that kind of says like, Hey, don’t put in your personally identifiable information, right? Don’t put in your, you know your student numbers, or you know your address, or you know, any of these kinds of things. Yeah, it’s, it’s worth taking the time out of lessons and then repeating, repeating, repeating it regularly, because I think a lot of people have become very comfortable with, like, I’m just typing in my address to, you know, get this thing delivered to me, or I’m just, you know, typing in my, whatever, my I always get my phone number over to get my text messages or whatever. It’s like, no, hold on a second. You You just still want to do the best you can to protect yourself. And so that’s a little bit of i. Digital citizenship that we should be reinforcing all the time. Okay, next one, we talked a lot about images. Ixchell you and I, you did a great job in the panel discussion. Really, I think a lot of people were captured by the conversations and the ideas that you were sharing in there. And so we we struggled a little bit with a few of the conversations around that, because it kind of felt like, oh, okay, the goal of AI images is to make an image, right? Like, just make a picture. And I you had a few, a few thoughts on this. So it’s like, what, what is the goal of a project with AI images?

Ixchell Reyes 15:40
Yeah, so when you’re using AI images, it’s no different to me than when you’re searching for an image on Google in the sense that you’re going to use that image as a starting point for a conversation or a project. So yes, you taught yourself how to prompt the the AI to generate an image with particular items that you want in there. But the end goal is not the image itself. So if you’re thinking like, Oh, this is the you know, my students created these images, or I created this image, let’s now print them and display them around the room. Well, that’s not, that’s not the end goal. The end goal is, what are you going to use that image for? To to jump start your conversation, your discussion, your writing project, your presentation, or the those things that students are that are going to enable the the learners to have a conversation, to talk about something, to write about something in English. And so it’s not about the image. Because essentially, why would you need an image? If you can just have a drawing or or find something on Google, right? So that it’s not there could be projects about that. But the end goal is enhancing communication, enhancing communication that can happen with the students and that being sparked by an image. So if you’re thinking, Okay, what do I do with this image? Now, do I print them and collect them and make a book? Yeah, you could, but, but that the end goal is not that the end goal is, what conversations are the students having? Are they are they having? Are they making role plays? Are you having them write about it? What English is that generating? What language is it generating?

Brent Warner 17:21
That’s right, yeah. So this one here, and actually Ixchell, this is a year ago right now, but we had episode 102 was beyond time saving using AI images for language learning or for language development. And I do recommend going back to that episode, because we we we started talking about the ideas of, like, how many different places, how many different ways you can use AI images? And it’s not just about producing the image, right? There’s, there’s lots of different ways and lots of interesting potential for how all of this can work. And so I really, I really want to encourage, I think this is, I still think this is a whole new field in language learning that really hasn’t been explored quite enough yet. And I think the responses to a lot of your parts of the presentations around those were good indicators that that’s very true. Because everybody’s like, Wait, What? What? What’s going on? Like, how do you do this? Right? And I wouldn’t even have thought of that before, right? And so opening up those parts of it can be very there’s a lot to explore and a lot to learn that just hasn’t been done before. And so I think that connects in with our next question, which is, what should I consider about my audience when using AI images?

Ixchell Reyes 18:39
Okay, so, well, a lot. So this, obviously, this is going to depend on that particular classes needs and also the cultural background of your students. So if you know that your students may be refugees, for example, you might want to make sure that whatever images you are showing them aren’t going to trigger something that’s unpleasant for them, because the goal of using images should be to lower their effective filter. If you’re, if you’re, if you have students that are in engineering, for example, okay, you want not. May want to gear your prompt to to have something with, I don’t know, I’m going to just say buildings or construction, or something like that, or something with geometric design. So you’re going to, you as a teacher, have to be the, the one who decides what, what images you’re going to use. So I obviously this means generate the images beforehand and see what you need to change. And this came up through a panel for our panel at TESOL. And one of the questions was, well, the or, I think one of the examples that one of the panelists showed had, I believe these students were. In Palestine, and so they were. They had images that were that they had chosen. The students themselves had chosen these images, right? So in that case, that was okay, because they’re the one. They’re the ones who are showing their reality and choosing to express themselves through those images, rather than us forcing the images upon them and then triggering something. I don’t know if that that came out clear, but definitely you have to think about what, what might be happening in the world. For those students, I read global news, so I I’m more aware of what, what might be interesting to my students. And that’s how i or i and I talked to them the same as you would when you first introduced the course to them, and you’re trying to get to know them.

Brent Warner 20:45
Yeah, for sure. So, you know, having that sensitivity to students needs. This also partly came up because one of the examples that I used, I talked about the idiom Adam, yeah, one of the activities, it’s actually one of the activities in the upcoming book, is the upcoming book, is the idiomad idi imaginative explorations, where you the example that I use a lot of times in my presentations is exploring the idiom of kick the bucket and like understanding the literal meaning versus the idiomatic meaning, and how to use images to link between those two, right? But a few of the people had different, you know, things about that, and said, Well, I can’t use that idiom because I don’t want my students to be thinking about death in my class or whatever else it is. And it’s like, okay, yeah,

Ixchell Reyes 21:32
Yeah. And that’s okay. You don’t need to use that idiom. I don’t even use it in real life. I never even say kick the bucket,

Brent Warner 21:37
Right – So these things are like, okay, are we getting into the concept of it or and you can work with your students and see what’s appropriate. But at the same time, you want to have a sense of what’s going on in their lives, what their world looks like, like. Are you talking about safe images? And again, you can bring up controversial things in your classes, as long as you kind of know and you’re thoughtful about how to do it, right? And so. So anyways, yeah, a lot of different things to consider. Don’t just make something on the fly, but do test it out a little bit to see what you can do and what happens.

Ixchell Reyes 22:11
Yeah. Here was an interesting question that I didn’t have an answer to, but we did get an answer to it, can I use AI images for my TPT, or Teachers Pay Teachers or materials that you sell?

Brent Warner 22:24
Yeah, that was an interesting question, I actually, and I was aware

Ixchell Reyes 22:29
I appreciate the question.

Brent Warner 22:30
Yeah, it was great. Because, you know, this teacher is trying to make stuff and, you know, share it out with other people. You can, yes. So when you make images, and I this might be different between different platforms. So again, you’re going to want to go in and check, but ChatGPT, for example, basically says anything that you generate is your it’s your right to use. This is for right now. We want to keep this in mind, and you know, it’s fine that that’s what they say. But there are also lots of lawsuits around images, right around like, Hey, you’re stealing my style when you’re creating these things and therefore anything that you’re making out of my style is, you know, should be mine. So possibly in the future, like, hey, these things would not be okay to use, or, you know, whatever else it is. But at the moment, they are considered open. And so if you’re, if you’re doing something that’s, you know, beyond just like your regular classroom use, if you’re saying, Hey, I’m going to sell this thing, or this is going to be part of my whatever part of, you know, I’m building a bigger lesson plan that I’ll sell on teachers, pay teachers, or, you know, on my own website or something. It’s definitely considered yours when you are the one who asks the chat bot to generate Okay, next up, how does voice AI work?

Ixchell Reyes 23:51
Well, I’m actually going to bounce that back to you, because I haven’t done a lot of work with voice AI, but you have.

Brent Warner 23:58
Yeah, this came up, and I keep asking this every time I talk to some of the voice companies inside of the exhibit halls to like, hey, how do you guys do it? And there are two different ways. So one is voice to text, and then text, basically they analyze the text, and then they put the text back out to voice. And so that could be fine for regular conversations, but it could be problematic for pronunciation, for homonyms, you know, all sorts of things like that, because it might misunderstand what you’re saying inside of those contexts. There are other ais that are actually all vocal processors, and they work on phonemes and, you know, all these types of things. And so I think in the future, we’ll probably see the, you know, something that’s a little bit more akin to the human brain and the way that it processes sounds that does focus more on those kinds of things to better understand and then be a little bit flexible when we have things like, I. You know, l1 interference, you know, pronunciation issues, whatever else it is, and might be able to recognize what those things are going on for, and hopefully to give feedback on those things specifically. So if it said, for example, Hey, you know, I recognize that you’re, you know, a Portuguese speaker, and you said this in this way, or you use this accent to get this idea across, but actually that becomes a, you know, a different word or different meaning in English. And so you have to be very careful about, you know, you know, changing your vowel sound, or whatever else it is. And so I right now it’s not perfect with that, because, again, a lot of times it goes to text, but both technologies do exist, and most of the tools out there that are trying to explore with these things are pulling in a combination of them. So it’s not totally clear that it works perfectly, even in those companies, but, but that’s kind of what where we’re stand right now. So I’ll shift to the next question. What are your thoughts on using AI to find cheating with AI? We need a

Ixchell Reyes 26:08
whole episode on this one. I want to give you a short elevator answer, but that is that it’s terrible pedagogy. And again, if you are putting on this lack mentality of I already expect my students to cheat and I’m going to catch them. Then you’re approaching this the wrong way. I’m going to leave it there, because I have lots of thoughts, and I don’t know if I have all the time, but discuss

Brent Warner 26:38
it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I my thought on this is the same. So one remembering that these things still produce false positives and false negatives, so meaning, they they misunderstand parts that are, you know, if it’s human written, they’ll say it’s aI written. If it’s aI written, they’ll say it’s human written. You can kind of run these generators to, hey, try it again. Try it again. Try it again. Update it again. Update it to try it again. So it’s like you can endlessly do this. The bigger thing, I think, than this is a harder and longer conversation, is we really do need to shift our what’s happening in education, because if we can just get quick answers to simple questions through AI, then are we spending time in our classes and honor education on the things that now matter, because if simple facts or easy answers are easily producible, then are we thinking about more about like, Hey, how are we actually teaching students to interact with these things and become critical thinkers that challenge the ideas that are being brought to them, rather than just trying to complete A class, right? Which is typically why students will cheat, is they have pressures outside and they just through it.

Ixchell Reyes 27:46
So we’ll have to have an episode on that. I think that’s…

Brent Warner 27:49
Yeah. I feel like we’ve talked… I mean, I’ve talked about this so much

Ixchell Reyes 27:53
So have I (laughter) but I feel like we should revisit it, maybe

Brent Warner 27:57
yeah, for sure. Okay, Okay. Last question.

Ixchell Reyes 28:00
Our last question is, can I use AI for assessment?

Brent Warner 28:07
So Ixchell you and I were exploring a tool before in the pre show, which was pretty cool. What was it called? Again, it was

Ixchell Reyes 28:16
Ask Stu

Brent Warner 28:17
Ask Stu – A, S, k, s, t, u, and it’s kind of does this, right? It like builds, little quizzes inside of everything. My problem is that when the AI builds these things, the answers are not always guaranteed to be right, and so depending on your assessment right. So there are tools that are definitely focusing on building out these things right. Brisk is trying to do, you know, all this stuff around feedback. This one asks do, which was cool, because it’s like, I like the idea of, like, multiple choice, and then, like, having AI grading your multiple choice, except that the problem is that, you know, AI is just predictive, and so it will give two correct answers, for example, as the answer choices, but it’ll say only that one of them is right, and it’s like no in a different context, the second one is also right, or, you know, whatever choices A and C could both be right, and it’s not necessarily recognizing that at this point. And so I would say that there are we go back to the episode with Jen Roberts. She talked a lot about the idea of kind of using it as a first sweep for assessment on certain levels, like formative assessment and but then going in and checking that and saying, like, Hey, okay, this is setting me up with the basics. So if I’m on a, you know, a four point scale, and I ask it to give students, like the general idea, then I can go back in and make adjustments later as I need to. So this, again, is definitely in flux. I would not just say hey, I’m going to trust any tool right now to be my AI assessor, but possibly as an assistant or as a way to help you through the process. All right, we kind of tried to jam through those as quickly as possibly Ixchell but I. You know, those were some of the regular conversations we were hearing everywhere, hallways, lunch tables, you know, after sessions, all those types of things. If you have other questions that you’re kind of worried about or wondering about, send it to us. We might do follow up episodes like this in the future. We we recognize now, after having been at the conference, how many people have so many questions? And it’s like, okay, we need to, we need to keep talking about this stuff. We need to kind of help people see what’s going on so and they change the answers to these totally changed, you know, down the line. So I could imagine, in six more months that we might have just a totally revisited. Now, what are we talking about now? What are the questions? So please do feel free to send us your questions.

Ixchell Reyes 30:46
All right, it is time for our fun finds, because there are still some fun things in this world. I have the lean body cookies and cream protein shakes, and they are 40 grams of protein in one sitting, and it doesn’t have any sugar. So as those of you who know, I like to run, and sometimes it’s hard to eat a lot of food. I have a small stomach, but I need the protein so lean body. Cookies and cream protein shakes are about $4 each, so it’s pretty good,

Brent Warner 31:17
So no sugar, but it’s cookies and cream, so it’s still pretty sweet?

Ixchell Reyes 31:21
Um, it’s not too sweet, because I don’t like a lot of sweet now. I don’t, I don’t, I eliminate most of the sugar out of my diet. So it’s, you can drink it without, like, gagging. (laughter) It’s pretty good. A lot of protein items are crap – they taste like crap. They’re not crap. They taste like crap (laughter)

Brent Warner 31:41
Good distinction! Alright, so mine, a couple weeks ago, I finally sat down and watched the new Nosferatu movie from 2024 It was great. You know, I know there was, it was pretty well received overall. I know there was some controversy in it and everything. But at least cinematography, the cinematography on it was wonderful. Like the use of colors and like how, how they used colors to indicate, you know, different situations happening inside of the movie. And it was just this kind of, this big, epic exploration, you know vampire, you know it’s the, it’s the, essentially a remake of the 1920 or 22 I think nostrada movie. But if you’re thinking about that, and you’re into, like, going and seeing a gothic horror movie, I was really impressed with it, and highly recommend it. So if you’re in the mood for that kind of movie, but yeah, very powerful Nosferatu 2024,

Ixchell Reyes 32:44
For the show notes and other episodes, check out DIESOL.org/118, for this episode. We are also on YouTube, Instagram threads and Facebook. At @DIESOLpod,

Brent Warner 33:01
you can find me on most of the socials at @BrentGWarner

Ixchell Reyes 33:05
And me on most socials at @Ixy_Pixy, that’s I X, Y, underscore p, i x, y,

Brent Warner 33:14
Alright, everybody. Thank you so much. We look forward to chatting with you again soon, and take care.

Ixchell Reyes 33:21
Thank you.