Ixchell Reyes
The DIESOL podcast

Brent Warner
Developing Innovation in English as a Second or Other Language,

Ixchell Reyes
Episode 64: Librarians and Language Learners with Jen Giffen

Brent Warner
Welcome to DIESOL. This is episode 64. We are your hosts. I am Brent Warner

Ixchell Reyes
and I’m Ixchell Reyes. Hey Brent. Alright happy summer vacation for you.

Brent Warner
There were there you’re in vacation time living it up.

Ixchell Reyes
And I heard you are not teaching this summer.

Brent Warner
That’s true. I am not teaching…

Ixchell Reyes
Let me introduce you to our co host pool boy Brent

Brent Warner
has not been made clear. I’ve taken a summer job as a pool boy hot pool boy summer Yeah, so I am out there. swabbing the decks and sweeping the algae and skimming the surfaces all of those types of things

Ixchell Reyes
I’m learning learn and you’re wearing SPF.

Brent Warner
I’m definitely wearing SPF. It is hot out there I am I am exhausted like my weird muscles in my hands. But I didn’t know that I have or like getting all bulked out you know I’m gonna be ripped and tan but end of the summer. Little little cabana pool boy.

Ixchell Reyes
Yeah. So you need me to feature a picture of you with your, your wide brim hat.

Brent Warner
I’ve got some pictures I’m gonna be posting. Cool, cool, cool. Summertime. And like I know we’re talking about all of this. And Jen is sitting in the in the corner waiting to be introduced. She can comment on this. He has no idea what’s going on.

Jen Giffen
Hi, how are you? Oh, well, you know, I’ve never been on a podcast where we start with Speedos. So…

Brent Warner
it’s a uniform, you know, we do speedos and sandals and a wide brim hat. And that’s all that’s all we’re allowed to wear. So we lost all of the accounts in one day. Like I don’t know what happened. Like everybody fired us immediately.(Laughter)

Jen Giffen
it’s a patient found your you haven’t found your niche yet. I feel like there’s a niche for you, Brent,

Brent Warner
we’ll get there. Okay. All right. So, today we have Jen Giffen. Jen, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you very much for having me. All right. So Jen, for those who don’t know, and I think probably everybody does, but Jen is a teacher, librarian and former digital literacy consultant in the York Region DSP. What’s DSP stands for

Jen Giffen
District School Board.

Brent Warner
Okay, so that is

Jen Giffen
so you guys have ISDS in the States and we have to do Ontario.

Brent Warner
Okay, so the difference up there in Ontario. So she has a master’s in curriculum teaching and learning from OASC and a specialist in integration of information and computer technology. Also, a lot of things that people might know you for here is a truly co host of the srixon gift podcast, Google innovator sketch noter teacher matchmaker cheerleader and up for just about anything former player of the game of school and now she seeks to ensure learning is authentic and relevant especially for struggling students. So Jen, you do so much stuff so much stuff I really do. Like not to mention you’re also you know, you’re a mother of three or four kids is that right? Three?

Jen Giffen
I have three boys. Yeah. You would

Brent Warner
imagine that you would be like just busy enough with that and then you’re like No, I’m just gonna take on all these other things as well.

Jen Giffen
Yeah, I it’s you know what I’ve actually the last month or so and and I just renovated my house like taught me gutted my house and moved out for almost four months. And it was during that in the last month I really been like I’m just gonna for the first time maybe in my life pause a little bit so like I haven’t podcasted in a couple of months and I didn’t do it like an official and we are not in summer yet. So thanks. Thanks for rubbing that in here because we still have a month we go into the 30th of June Wow up here guys the Tuesday after Labor Day. Oh,

Ixchell Reyes
well sorry guys go till after yeah September

Jen Giffen
Yeah. Because our hot months like we get those six weeks of like heat in Canada and it’s in July.

Ixchell Reyes
Yeah. And then it’s like cold for the rest of the

Brent Warner
so yeah, and then bandage of that time for sure.

Jen Giffen
Exactly. So if you if you want to bring your like pool boy skills up this way. I don’t have a pool but I could like maybe get one of those like blow up turtle one inflatable that in my backyard? I don’t know. Probably really expensive as long

Brent Warner
as I can stand around in speedos and flip flops, like you just put me anywhere and that’s fine.

Jen Giffen
That’s fine. It’s um, what’s temperature today? I think it’s like 58 degrees here today so

Ixchell Reyes
58 Holy crap.

Jen Giffen
It might be a little while just right now this morning was cold. It’s going up to something. Alright guys You may have swept 21 degrees, but Celsius it sounds like we’re not quite that. Oh, no, it’s Oh, it’s almost 60 here on it is currently 59 degrees 59 degrees today with a high of 68, which is a lovely day here for this time of year we were but we were like feels like 94. Last week it was on we said we like shattered records. Anyway, we’re not here to have this

Brent Warner
podcast, if it decides to teach us a little bit of weather, weather forecasting and meteorology.

Jen Giffen
Do you know what we used to have a live in nanny from the Philippines. And when she came here after six months, she looked at me, like why do you always talk about the weather? So I really do. It’s all we talk about? Because like in beautiful California, it’s like, oh, it’s warm and sunny again today. Oh, what’s that? Like? It really fluctuates. And when we get weather like we

Ixchell Reyes
got to enjoy it. Yeah,

Jen Giffen
you got it. Yeah, that’s how you know if someone’s truly Canadian, you will know because if they haven’t brought up the weather at some point in your conversation, they’re an impostor. They’re not in Canada.

Brent Warner
Sneaking in Southern California. Yeah, that the boots right. And the boots. Boots is not quite right, though. Right. Because we watched Letterkenny right, Letterkenny and there were they were given a joke about that about how like they don’t quite say a boot. It’s more like a boat, a boat about

Jen Giffen
it’ll come out. I hear it when I when I’m on with American friends. And I’ll say it. And I’m like out there it is. I heard it. But I don’t hear it when I’m speaking to Canadian friends. But yeah, it isn’t isn’t about and Letterkenny is not. You know Letterkenny is set only about 90 minutes CSI set up there I did here. It’s only about 90 minutes away like that the town it’s supposed to be based in from where I live. So it’s a little bit more country than the suburbs that I’m in. But I’m like, you watch it. I’m like, Yeah, it’s pretty. Yeah.

Brent Warner
I’ve heard a few people say that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, well, so Jen, one of the big reasons we want to have you on is we want to talk about librarians and language learners. And so I think this is like, this is an area we haven’t really talked about very much. Obviously, your

Ixchell Reyes
first first librarian, right? We haven’t had anybody. Yeah. Yeah. First librarian first Canadian. First Canadian. Yeah.

Brent Warner
Yeah. You’re you’re finding all sorts of records here.

Ixchell Reyes
Yes. We interviewed someone in Canada. Now. While we’re

Jen Giffen
called Guinness called. We’re setting records.

Ixchell Reyes
Sorry, Brent. totally meant to cut you

Brent Warner
off. No, no. So yeah, we wanted to get you in on and just start talking, because I think a lot of people, teachers might neglect the librarian or the resources that the librarians have to offer. And not not necessarily intentionally, but I think a lot with language learning, too. And with like, Hey, what are the things that librarians do now that are, you know, like, I think there’s still a lot of holding on to the old idea of like, they walk me down the the book stacks and take me and point me to where a book is, and then they walk back the thing and, and, you know, being a librarian, obviously, is quite a bit different these days. And so I guess we’ve kind of wanted to start talking about that and see like, like, one, what do you do as a librarian, but to also how does that, like, what what types of resources are? What are you offering? And how are you able to give support to language learners and to, to Teasle teachers as well?

Jen Giffen
Yeah. So I think there’s a lot of different things we can do that no, like, let’s not neglect the books like there is the whole Yeah, we’re gonna walk down and show you.

Brent Warner
Yeah, sorry. I didn’t mean to talk trash and

Jen Giffen
trash the books brand. Fantastic. No, but we do more than that. But there are there are certain things so for example, in our collection, and I gave a lot of thought to where I wanted to put leveled readers, for example, or easier readers and those high low books that we buy for students who come in at, you know, very, like early language acquisition, and do we put them in with the rest of the collection? Do we put them separately, and that’s a big conversation for teacher librarians to have, and particularly with, you know, our the English language teacher, the English language learner teachers. And just say, like, where do you want them and I talked to our head of, of ELL is actually going to be working with me in the library next year. So we have eight sections of library in our school, and I get sick. So it’s a full timetable for me and then so but then when I have my prep period, someone needs to be in there. And I sort of lobbied hard to get her in. She’s a fantastic teacher named Vivian Cortez. And she just has a lot of insight into what could be done and I really feel that the library collection and the space is a real place and a hub for our English language learner students. So with her she and I spoke and I said, Well, where do you want to put them and we decided to put some on their own so that the students could come in and not be intimidated and have to seek through and you know, the the large collection, but then we put a whole bunch in the collection so that the students especially, so we level them here in Ontario, ABCDE and E being like the sort of most acquired language are ESL D and E students. could go and not feel like I’m still reading these books because my English isn’t great. Yeah, but they but they can still find things for themselves. In the collection, we have spine labels that are, you know, can really help with that. We don’t genre fie our library. It’s fully done, like alphabetically by author’s name. Okay. And so we have our early readers are like our easy readers are leveled readers, some of them in one area. So that’s sort of like, but a lot of them are just in our collection, which I think is good. And a lot of students have said that and you can see when they come in, if they sort of feel like no, I want to read the books, almost like if you were like in primary and you have a kid wanting to read sort of the older the middle school books, they go, Oh, I can I can be in here. And I don’t know, I think there’s something to be said for that, right? Because you want to meet their needs. And some kids, they just like, Nope, just show me where the books are that I can read and other kids are like, No, I want to be in with everyone else. I don’t want to look like I don’t know what I’m doing, particularly when students are coming down with a non English class, right? If they’re coming down, let’s say for a social science or history, whatever it happens to be. And it’s not like, oh, I don’t, I don’t really want to go over there, because everyone else can read those. And I feel like I’m dumb. And then like, we know that that’s not the case, right? And so often, people who are acquiring language and as someone who at one point was fully fluent in four languages, and now I would say I’m fluent in like, two and two half languages. Well, I speak French, right, because I’m Canadian. And but I, in high school, I picked up Spanish, and then in university, I picked up Italian. So by when I was about 2324 years old, I was fluent in both Spanish and Italian now haven’t practiced them in a long time, so I can understand it, and I can read some of it, but I can’t always find the words. But I know for me too, like I, I, when I’m speaking in Spanish, or even when he’s speaking in French, I’m not I’m not stupid person. But I can’t always find the words. And I think that’s, I think that a lot of our, you know, English language learners feel that way too. Like, I know what I want to say in my language. So I don’t want to go to these, like baby looking books, and then people are gonna think I’m dumb, because I have my ideas there, I just don’t have necessarily the resources. And these are things that of course, we can help with as a teacher librarian. So putting things in a certain area, labeling them is very important, I think, so that students know where to find them. I also really make a point of doing,

you know, orientations at the beginning of every year for grade nine students, and also all of our ESL classes. Because a lot of the students, we as librarians, and like, I’m a high school librarian, so when we come in, in grade nine, we think, Okay, well, you got it in grade nine, but how many of our students are not in grade nine, and have come to the school and don’t know the space. So I think it’s so important to capture those, like students, so to speak, and bring them in and say, Okay, this is what’s happening here, and not just our level A’s and B’s, but also like, right up, because it might just be here, folks. So for example, we just, we had a new student enroll maybe three weeks ago from the Ukraine came here, because of, you know, everything going on over there with her mom and her siblings and her her dad still back fighting the war. And it’s, you know, it was a big point of and I was asked her guidance department to and this is something else I would encourage teacher librarians to do. Or, you know, the ESL teacher studios make sure that as part of the orientation for the school, when they’re walking around, have a point of coming into the library space, because it’s also a really good spot, that you find a lot of kids who are there on their own. And I call it the land of the Misfit Toys sometimes, right? It’s like, everyone has their purpose. Like you remember that scene in Rudolph, when, when they run into the Yeti, and then they they’re all hiding, and they find all those elves who want to do other things. And the ones that dentist, it’s like, okay, you don’t make toys, but you make a really good dentist. And look, you were able to, you know, solve the problem that Yeti was having. And I find in the library, what happens is, especially in high school, when they have you know, spares or they have lunch, especially, we don’t have a common lunch. So we have these students who come in, and they haven’t really found their their crew yet. And they come in on their own. And and this is where I think it’s sort of a really long answer to what you asked. But, you know, we can set up Makerspace activities, and I like have a puzzle table. And I’ve seen more friendships foster through those activities. And it could be you know, someone who, like we have a lot of students from Iran, for example, we have someone who’s like new from Iran, and they’d be sitting there working, then they’d hear someone speaking Farsi. And then they can turn around and they can meet them really quickly and different than in than a cafeteria or in a hallway, right? Because you’re already you have these cliques. But if you’re like sitting doing a puzzle, you’re like, Oh, hey, can I join you and I start speaking to you in Farsi as well. And I’ve seen so many beautiful friendships flourish, just from the space where that third teacher idea that what’s around them really can help teach them and foster even the soft skills, not just the hard skills that we’re teaching students. So there’s a lot right there’s a lot that can be unpacked in a library to really support students academically and socially.

Brent Warner
Yeah, and I love that idea of, you know, the kind of the third space the place I have been on a mission around my campus is saying like, you know, classroom design is pedagogy matters, like it absolutely matters, how things are built, how things are put together, what the relationship between furniture and places are and those types of things. as well, because it helps, cuz you can guide it in ways that get the students together with each other, or let them separate from each other, you know, like, depending on their own needs. And so I love to hear all that. And then I also really liked this idea. And I think this could be a benefit because it does go into like UDL principles all for me, I’m always like, Hey, if you’re planning for ESL, you’re doing UDL, pretty much by default, right? Because it’s going to help other students. And so I love that idea of, you know, if you if they walk in, and you go, Okay, here’s a stack just for you guys, right? Like, doesn’t it’s not hard to find it’s easy, it’s accessible. And it guides you into the rest of the library to guide you into the rest of the places to find other things too. And so I think that type of setup like that intentional setup for providing for the students is, is a really big deal. Right. And I think it might get overlooked, I don’t know, you tell if you’ve had any experiences of those two?

Ixchell Reyes
Well, I’m actually happy to hear that. Based on what I’ve observed with our library, now I’m hearing Jen speak about it. And I work with adults, of course, but our librarians have tried to make sure that students do know that it’s accessible, that do know that they can go in there for books. And one of the things I’ve observed is they often have these passive activities going on. So for example, on one wall they had, whatever the theme of the month is, students can vote, so there’s tallies, but they also go by countries and by languages. And so I think one of them was like friendship day. And I think students who were in the library could, in on a little, I don’t know, they cut like little shapes of a leaf, like a tree leaf or something. And they had to write like, how do you say, friend in your language, and so, you know, students, just random students would gather there, and then they would start talking to each other, from different countries, different languages. So it was a place for them to meet outside of their, you know, outside of their usual group. And as you said, it, it may be a student of a higher level. And I’ve observed many times where immediately as you walk into our library, there’s a big, there’s a counter, of course, because they want to be able to guide the students who are new. And then there’s a bookshelf of all like the penguin leveled readers. And then there’s like the, like 10,000, whatever 1000 vocabulary words, you must know by group. So there, you know, what happens is you often have I’ve seen the students that are of a higher skilled, higher skilled students will then guide the lower skill students to where they think like, oh, here’s start with this one, and you need this one and that one. And so that’s not something that the librarian is doing. But now you’ve had like the student guiding another student, giving them something that worked for them. And I’ve seen that happen over and over. And so I’m hearing, I’m sure that there’s design that’s gone into that. I see it when I go in there. But now I’m really reflecting on the interactions I’ve seen, because those are not, you know, those were designed to happen there. So I’m happy to, to hear affirmation on that.

Jen Giffen
I think too, there’s like, really purposeful conversations with students can be helpful. Like I I’m really quickly, I go over the Dewey Decimal System. And I’m like, This is how we organize things here. So if you are on our sort of leveled readers, or easy readers shelf, and you find something in the 970s, and you’re like, oh, this really good resource, you can also go to the 970s in the large collection, and see if there’s something there that might help as well that you might be might might have access to, and it works the other way. And I’ll often say to students are like, Oh, this is like, I really don’t understand this concept. It’s really difficult, like, well, let’s see if we can go there. And I go back the other way as well to be like, this is something that might be more of an elementary school level or easier language or more pictures and whatever it happens to be. And just seeing that, you know, it’s not just you know, going back to the UDL idea, Brent, and I’ve never until you said that I for me, I’ve always thought UDL in terms of special education, right. It’s it’s for students with IEP s and then I don’t know why I hadn’t really considered it for our English language learners, right. This is worse it is what we do for them. And I’ve been doing UDL since I think before it had a name. I was like, Well, why wouldn’t you just give all kids extra time? Why Why wouldn’t you highlight key words for everyone? Isn’t this kind of this is not just good teaching. But I think there is something there. I know one thing that I did too at the beginning is show you you talked about you know, the friends, like how do you say friends in your language. When we were setting up it was when I moved into the space, it was a very traditional library. And I was hired because the my principal wanted it to change like no, I want it to be more that like a Learning Commons more so than a library. And I said yeah, that’s great. Let’s do it. And so I one of the first things I did we have a Cricut machine right there like cutter, which is so therapeutic. You can sit there and like watch it all day. And I had all this vinyl and as kids came in, I was sitting near the Circulation Desk Just gonna be like, hey, like I’m like, Oh, I’m Mrs. Griffin. I’m the new librarian. And they all hide snakes me, you know, so just speak any other languages? And they’re like, Well, yeah, at home, we speak Korean like, oh, how do you say hello in Korean and be like, I’m young. It’s like, Do you know how to write it? And I would have them fight like go to Google with me and find a PNG. And we actually cut out I think we have 41 How to say hello in 41 different languages and different colors all across our front circulation desk. So when kids come up the look, and they would say, like, Oh, mine’s not here, like, Well, how do you say and what language and let’s go, and then we have them create. So now, you know, they’re learning what a tool that we have that they can use in the library, but in a way that makes them feel like they’ve contributed to the space, which is huge, because it’s not, it’s not my space, if people were like, oh, what’s going on in your library, and it’s not my library, I don’t own it. I think I know, like, you know,

Ixchell Reyes
I love that

Jen Giffen
It’s all of our space. And in that even little things like that can be so inviting. And every year since, you know, this is my third year and on the libraries from the two years following that, when the grade nines or new students come in, and they see they’re like, Oh, I speak, you know, Farsi, or I speak Gujarati or whatever in like, yeah, that’s, that’s all in my language. And then we have conversations about, you know, once we had something in Arabic, and they were like, well, why Why could you write it in this way, as well. And like, I love that students find each other through that. And I think it’s really great. I also do it would you rather, every day you walk in it was something that I saw on Instagram, and I started a great idea went nuts, it went and it’s the easiest thing I’ve ever done. I literally have a piece of plastic, like hard plastic that you’d usually put signs in. I take a dry erase marker, and I just in Canva, printed out something and said would you rather and then a white box to white boxes. And every morning, I go with my dry erase marker and I’m like, hey, what do we want to do rather, and I put it on and then I have two cups. And then I have a bowl of Lego small like the two Lego pieces. So it’s just like, it’s a vote. It’s literally you don’t there’s no tally, you just put your piece of Lego in. And I have kids who will walk out from the hall come in, just vote and then leave. Because it’s the front door,

Ixchell Reyes
I need to do that with my adults. That would be fun.

Jen Giffen
And in the conversations again, if we go back to the idea of you know, one of their doing puzzles, the conversations that happen even with that you see a kids up there and staring on it and other people come up and be like, Oh, this one’s easy. And like yesterday, it was like pet dragon or pet dinosaur. For sure, a dragon and that kid would be like, put the fire like they breathe and you lose your house. And, and you know, you see ninth graders with 12th graders and we see you know, students who are just acquiring English to students who were, you know, in our gifted AP English programs. And it’s, it’s, it’s a really cool thing to do. And like I said, it’s that third teachers, just realizing that the space itself can can really help build those relationships that can lead to like, lifelong friendships, they can lead to tutoring opportunities, they can, you know, you see each other again, you’re like, Oh, I see, oh, you’re in my class, let’s there’s just so much that a library can do in that, in that sense, like so, you know, back to Brent’s point, and we’re not just books such as like, come in and I will show you a book and then I will leave there’s there’s so much more.

Brent Warner
Well, I did want to jump in because you and this is funny, just because I was thinking about it the other day, not really, really anything but like, I actually asked myself I’m like, is the Dewey Decimal system still in place? And you are saying yes, because I’m like, and this is like an honest question. Because I’m like, do we need it with tech and like being able to look and there’s, you know, you’re looking at your like, your mad dog and me, but this is like, I just haven’t thought about it for a while. Like, you know, of course I used it when I was a kid when I was in college and all those types of things. But um, now I’m looking I’m like, I was just thinking, like, so many kids are looking at things online or getting access to things you know, on the internet and so I’m not sure how prevalent it is. I guess. I’m just purely for information I’d love to Yeah, no,

Jen Giffen
yeah, so I don’t I don’t actually buy a lot of nonfiction books anymore. This year. I’d say more than half of my budget went towards graphic novels, because that’s what was getting kids in and they wanted it and it was central I put it up on our social media it exploded and I bought maybe $1,000 worth of graphic novels and then gets you into gold you have this you have this and I put out a whiteboard just beside him like oh what what else can I add to the collection and within an hour it was filled with titles and dozens of different titles a collection so get bleach Oh Get My Hero Academia get all the time this was so not my niche. Like, I’m like I read Archie when I was a kid. My extent right. And it was incredible to me that you know, the students would come in and do this. But anyway, back to nonfiction. We don’t buy a whole lot because it can go out of vogue, right? Something that you have, you’re like, Okay, well we don’t really we don’t do that anymore. Like if I’m gonna buy things on climate change. I you know, 510 years it’s going to be nuts why there’s certain things that I put in and certain things I don’t so that’s that’s sort of my beef with nonfiction is it can become obsolete very quickly. I also have a really tough time I struggle a lot with Dewey because do we can be really biased and and quite frankly racist. There are a lot of classifications that were made. This is the early 19th or 20th century Tree, right the doing the classification system in the what the 1920s. I want to say it could be that but yeah, he died in 1930. He lived to be 80 years old though and died in 80 in 1930. So like, at that time for a guy to the I just learned that recently there’s, there’s, there’s my fun fact this was 80 years old and at the turn of the century, like from the 18th to the 1900s. That’s like ancient old anyway. So there’s a lot of stuff in there. Like, if you look at what’s one of them, if I’m, I’m, of course, blanking on everything right now. But so if you wanted to have books on like, Wiccan, for example, do you put those in religion and spirituality? Or do you put that in like folklore and, and he has it not in religion, and there are people who like Wiccans would be like, This is my religion. So there’s a lot of things that we’ve ways that we progressed in society that do, he doesn’t really lend itself to now you can decide where you’re going to put your books, so you can change things around. But that makes it a little bit, you know, more challenging for kids, if they’re used to go into one area I’ve kept doing to this point, because I’m like, Well, I want them to understand how libraries beyond our you know, brick and mortar building are working, they’re going to a public library, if they’re going to the university or college library, it’s likely going to be doing in fact, I don’t know a single one that’s not so I want them to know how to search Dewey for that reason, and especially when you have Dewey. And it’s like, you know, 462, point 1649736 or eight and like all the like breakdowns on the numbers. But there are some problematic issues. There’s a few librarians on Tiktok, who have talked about getting rid of Dewey all together and coming up with their own classification system and why they did that to be more inclusive. But you know, I don’t have enough, it’s actually on my list to really dive into the summer eyes to learn a little bit more about that. But I have read some pretty compelling articles to look at, like, maybe this is this needs to be changed, you know how we’re 120 years or 100 years later? Maybe we do need to revisit Dewey for those purposes.

Ixchell Reyes
Hmm, interesting. I never thought about it, because I just haven’t used that system and so long I, in our libraries, small enough that I know Oh, that’s that section, that section. But yeah, I had never thought about that. Interesting. I’d like to probably check more out on tick tock.

Brent Warner
Yeah, I think that also makes sense, too, because we’re going through I feel like a big education revolution, you know, like, it’s, it’s, you know, coming in from the bottom, like, bottom up, you know, and a lot of a lot of people are trying to make individual changes locally, and then and then hoping that those changes spread, you know, go go on bigger. And so I could absolutely see that shifting to with so many, especially like in the last two or three years, just like so many people trying to push for, you know, better social justice, all those types of things as well. And so yeah, there’s, there’s a lot of interesting, a lot more to learn, I guess, and a lot, a lot of interesting places where that can go. So Jenna gets a couple of things we’re also looking for, because obviously, like you have a big focus on tech you have and we get, I don’t even know if we have time to get into like sketchnoting. And how that can help students?

Ixchell Reyes
Oh, Scott, we have that’s gonna have to be a whole episode, right? Because I know teachers that don’t do, I don’t think in my group of colleagues will be there. They’re not familiar with sketchnoting Oh, my God. So I know, I know.

Brent Warner
Jen does full trainings on all of this stuff. So we will probably have you back to talk about that. Because I just think we’re gonna run out of time, because I just know, as soon as we let the lease go on that you’re just gonna go.

Jen Giffen
Yeah, that’s a good hour. So

Brent Warner
So let’s, let’s focus in on just some of the tech because because, you know, I look on your show, you’re just like, here’s a cool tool, this is how you could use it, right? Like a bunch of that kind of fun stuff. And you always have a tendency to come up with ones or, you know, find things that are different that I’m not aware of, or, or, you know, like I hadn’t thought of, in that perspective, sometimes. And so, are there any thing out there that you love for? And again, coming back to language learners as a priority, but you know, could be for all students as well, what are some of the things that you feel are really capturing students attention, or helping them build and grow?

Jen Giffen
Um, Google read and write is usually my first one. I love Google read and write like, as we’re Google district. So the ability in there to, you know, just set off certain numbers of reader does it too it really, really well, if you’re a Microsoft, sort of, you know, district. We I love it because it has the translation built in for students. It can simplify parts of speech for them, it can help Rican read to them and has that visual dictionary embedded. So if you’re like, I don’t really understand this word. What is it? It’s not just Okay, now here’s, you know, there’s nothing worse than being like I don’t know what this word means. And then you read the definition like I don’t know what three quarters of these words mean either. Fantastic. Are you like how often does not often. But I like that visual dictionary built in. I think I think that’s really huge. So

Ixchell Reyes
as a Google trainer, I think I should know what Google read and write is, and I don’t, but we are not allowed to use Google in, in my institution. But I actually would like to know about it, because I don’t know what it is.

Jen Giffen
So Google read and write is an extension, it’s a Chrome extension, it’s paid. And our district pays for it. Now either, well, there’s the free version, and then there’s the upgrade. And you you basically you turn it on, and it will do like screen masking. So it’ll only show you like, you know, it darkens the rest of the screen and you can read like one chunk at a time, you can highlight a section and it will read it to you out loud, and it will even this is what I love, it will read it to you in accents. So if I, if I’m Mexican, and I learned English in Mexico to start, I likely had a teacher with a Mexican accent. So if I’m hearing an American accent, or if I’m hearing a British accent, I may not be able to understand whereas if I can flip it so that the person reading to me has that accent. I’m used to

Brent Warner
that was in there. Yeah.

Ixchell Reyes
Change the voice. Even though we can’t use it within our organization, my students can use it at home.

Brent Warner
So English accent English accent from a region,

Jen Giffen
right? Yeah. Who do you want reading to you? Do you want like Jen from Canada, and I’m saying about everyone else in the world. I’m making sure that the letter U is in everything that I say color not colored? Did you hear it? Yeah. So we, yeah, that that, to me is is incredible. And I’ve used that with English language learners. Like I don’t really understand. You can also slow down the rate at which it’s read to you. So for me, I’m like the only podcast I can’t listen to when I if I do listen to mine, which it was actually to our friend Tom Covington, who said, of course, you have to listen to yours, would you? Would you do a blog post or not proofread. At first I’m like, Oh, I never good point. I don’t want to like who likes the sound of their own voice other than Morgan Freeman like nobody. So we write when I do listen to what I’m the only podcast that I can listen to I have to listen to single speed because I speak so quickly. So when I listen to things when I want something read to me using Google read and write and again, this UDL model, like sometimes I’m like, Okay, well, I want to read this article, but I’m doing something else. So I’m just gonna open Google reading, right? And as I’m doing whatever I’m doing in my office, or wherever I am, I have it read to me, and I go double speed. But for our English language learners, they might go down to 75% instead of two times, right? Because just hearing it more slowly. And I know this from just my own language acquisition, like if I’m, if I’m watching, for example, I just finished Ozark and Oh, my God, this. So I watched Ozark and speaking Spanish, I could pick up a lot of what they said when they were talking to the cartel. But sometimes I was like, oh, no, it’s just it’s too quick for me. So if I’m listening to Spanish, often I will slow it down. So I’m like, okay, I can understand I kind of have to see the words in my head as well. So that’s something that really works. There’s just so much in there that that can be used by students. Like I said, it’s free, you can buy, like, pay the premium to upgrade it, but it’s it’s so so good. It’s language so

Ixchell Reyes
much. This is cool. Yeah, this is really cool. I’m gonna have to play with it. I haven’t. Only because yeah, if we’re not using it, it’s harder for me to explore certain things. During the pandemic, they made an allowance for it. But right now, it’s like, Nope, we’re moving to Microsoft Teams and all that, which for and to me.

Brent Warner
So a few things here, like just and for anyone who hasn’t played with this before, there’s a few cool extra cool features that I like in there too. One is the highlighting and isolating feature. So like you can highlight in like purple, yellow, green, and pink or something like that. And then you click a button, and it will create a whole new Google Doc isolating each of those words, and then it will turn out can actually turn them into like a pic. A separate picture dictionary sheet with notes available like that. You can add your own notes into it and then like, and then the students can’t and you can. So for your class you might choose like a lot of times I do parts of speech. So be like, okay, highlight nouns in pink highlight adjectives in green. And so then they’re isolating all these words, and they’re creating their own whole vocab lists in there. And it’s incredible, because the best thing about it is I’ve shown it to students, you know, I’m like, Okay, here’s the thing that you can use. And we have to move on with our class a lot of the time, and then I’ll have a student come back to me like a year later. And they’re like, I’m still using, it’s so good, like all they’re just using it for their own daily use, right? It’s a really, really powerful. So

Jen Giffen
it’s great to for students when they’re when they’re researching because it’s Google. Those kinds of tools are often built into databases as well. So we use Gale as one of our databases and And I was wondering like the collecting the highlights. So I have students say, Okay, well when you’re reading this, if you know your research paper has three parts to it, and you’re like, oh, this could be used in part one, and this could be used and three, and this could be used in two Oh, this is one again, highlight in those colors. So that afterwards it creates that document. And then you have everything okay, point one, here’s everything together and point to here’s everything together, it’s just work. So for my brain, because that’s how I used to do things like I would write sticky notes, and then have like sticky notes all over the place, like, you know, bulked up and bunched up where they need to go. So that it was on a single topic. And it just, it just really helps with organization. It’s it’s amazing what they have access to now versus what I did back, you know, oh, Towson University, bubble.

Brent Warner
I mean, it really is. It’s such a different world for language learning these days. And I’m like, a big part of me is like super jealous, because I’m like, can you imagine like I used to carry around a box, it was probably, you know, 12 to 15 inches long, and you know, four inches by four inches, and it was just filled with flashcards and I carry it around with me. And I would just flip, flip, flip, flip, flip, you know, and I had I had those, this was when the coolest new technology was flashcards that come on a ring, you’re like the little ones that they had the ring, like spent all this money, and I got these rings and like, and I was like, okay, flipping through these flashcards, and I’m like, Yeah, this, there’s nothing better than this. And then, you know, go figure that once I become a teacher, then there’s a million times a bigger capacity in my pocket without having to carry a giant box around like a fool.

Jen Giffen
If people if people are looking for things to read to them to like you Google read and write, of course to, like I said, is paid. But there’s another one that’s called natural reader, text to speech. And it will listen to email, web pages, Google Docs, PDFs, Kindle books, and actually read to you through AI but in a natural voice. So if someone’s looking for something quick that they’re like, oh, yeah, it’s easier. Like I I’m an audio book fan, like I read over 60 books last year, and I want to say 55 of them were audiobooks because when I’m cooking, or when I’m driving, or when, you know, my kids are talking about Minecraft, and I hide, you know, my, my hair. I I’m listening to or even just like reshelving books in the library and hanging out doing whatever I almost always listening to a book and the kids are like, Why always AirPods and I’m like, I’m listening to a book. And so I think that for me, I love to have things read to me, and especially if it’s really dense material, right? I like to read along, but also hear it. So that’s one that I’ve used to Natura it’s called natural reader text to speech. And it’s, it’s free. It’s a Chrome extension. It works really well. I really like it for that. And then there’s another one I’m trying to find it there’s so I feel like it’s called maybe to Ken or something, do I have it on this account? Sounds familiar. So to can, you can learn a new language by browsing the internet. So let’s think about our teacher. I heard the about there, that one I heard I told him let’s think about our teachers who might have a bunch of kids like at my school, we have most of our English language learners are Iranian, or we have a lot of exchange students or like Visa students who are coming in from China. So let’s say I wanted to start to learn some Farsi. To can allows, you know, I don’t I’d actually don’t know Farsi is one of them. But you can learn a new language while browsing the internet. So you, you add this extension, and you turn it on, and then depending on how much you want to immerse yourself, it’ll change certain words in what you’re reading into the desired language. So that as I’m reading and using my like, you know, I know how to read skills, right? Like all my, all the nuances of reading, like my prediction skills, and my reading around text might be reading be like, Oh, that’s supposed to say house and Oh, okay. It says Maizel if I’m learning French, and I can click the word and it will say it aloud to me so that as I’m reading, I can slowly learn words in other languages to eventually become more and more fluent in the language. Like I said, it can start with only like, you know, a peppering of words throughout to like changing half of what you’re reading, if you’re further along in that language. And I think, as a way to learn another language, and if you want to learn the languages that your students are speaking and maybe like throw words in here and there for them, I think it’d be a really cool thing for teachers to be able to check out.

Brent Warner
This is super interesting is really cool. I’m looking at it right now. It’s on. I feel like.com to use. Yeah,

Ixchell Reyes
I’d heard about it before. Somewhere, I’m sure because it sounded familiar, but I’d never I didn’t know what it did. I knew something with languages. That is very, very cool.

Jen Giffen
It’s really cool. And so for me, like like I said, my Spanish and Italian are rusty. So I turned it on for that every now and then I’m like, Okay, let’s challenge myself as I’m reading an article and I’m like, oh, yeah, that word Sometimes it’s hard I had once I was like, Oh, I could probably do this. And I had like a medium setting. It was like, okay, barely. I’m way more rusty than I thought. And I had to make it a bit easier for myself. But it’s a really, it’s a cool thing. And if you have students in speaking different languages, again, like, maybe you partner up and so I speak French, so you’re gonna put some French words to learn and like to build those relationships in our class, too. It could just be a fun community building exercise.

Brent Warner
Oh, yeah, this is amazing. There’s this cool.

Ixchell Reyes
Playing with just the just the

Jen Giffen
wrap up the podcast. Well. Thanks for joining us, everyone.

Brent Warner
I am goon henio. Is that right? It was? Did I call myself?

Ixchell Reyes
A genius? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Brent Warner
Spanish?

Ixchell Reyes
That is cool. Very cool. Yeah,

Brent Warner
there’s a lot of stuff to play with. So I love all of this, there’s so much interesting, you know, so many interesting places to go with all of these things, and so many ways to help your students kind of grow. And I love that all these two, like, in particular, that I’m thinking, like, you know, these students can also come into the library and jump on a computer and have access to all of these things, right? And so, sometimes, you know, when you’re language learning, it’s like, oh, you know, can I do this from home, like, Can I do it, whatever am I going to get the support to make sure that I know how to do it. And so I love the, the access to all of this inside of a library to and just being able to say, hey, there’s a place that’s going to support you, and especially if you’re putting an ESL teacher right in there, that’s saying, like, Hey, I know how to help you guys get through all of this, it makes a lot of sense, because I can provide, you know, it’s like a support level that maybe a lot of students didn’t know, that they needed, or that they could really benefit from, I think a lot of times, classroom teachers, you know, obviously, everybody’s doing their best, but like, it’s very hard to accommodate every person’s needs, and every everything and like, oh, like, even for me, I’m like, oh, yeah, I know, read and write, we have it. But like, last semester, it’s get my mind, like, I just didn’t like it was like, I was doing other things, right. And so I didn’t teach it to my students last semester. But I’m also like, well, it will be so cool to have just in the library or in the language, you know, we have a language center at our school too. It’s like, hey, come in here, get access to support at different levels here, all sorts of tools and things that can help you out too. And this is a place where you can come to learn these things. That definitely can be a benefit to you inside of the classroom, but also help you outside in the in the extended world, too.

Jen Giffen
And yeah, and teacher librarians can be so underutilized, right? People, I have people all the time come in, and I can I just ask you a question. But there’s some like, yeah, that’s, that’s my job. I don’t I don’t want to bother you. I’m like, you’re not. It’s my job. And, and just things that we can do. Like even having a teacher like sometimes in the moment, I can’t, but I’m like, give me 24 hours. And I’ll get you that that answer. Like I love like I have, you know, a really active Professional Learning Network on Twitter. And I’ve had teachers come in and say, do you know about this and like, I don’t but give me two hours. And I’ll tweet it out. And I tag some people that I think are, you know, might have the answer for me. And I usually get something back. So I’m constantly telling the teachers in my building, like, yeah, use me, especially during the pandemic, when I was actually a shelf librarian for one of the years I was, I was redeployed to the classroom, but for this year, I’m like, yeah, if you’re exhausted, like reach out to your teacher librarians and say, like, is there a lesson that you could do with my kids? And because we know a lot of your curriculum, right, we know your standards, we know like, that’s a big part of our job. And we might have a lesson that we’re like, oh, we could do this or just even, I actually have a contest that I run in our library, I have a form that I fill out at the end of every day. And it’s I put everyone into a draw. And at the end of each semester, I draw one name and they win a prize for using the Learning Commons. So it could be the you know, you use the space for a guest speaker, it could be you co plan the lesson with me or you let me teach a lesson. It could be that you were featured on our social media, like anything that happens during the day. And they always forget. And at the end of the year, I’m like, Okay, now we’re doing the draw, and people are like, oh, yeah, I forgot it. Can you elaborate on that? Maybe you’ll win. But there’s all those things. And I purposely put it out there at the beginning of every semester, to remind them like these are all the things that I can do for you. So you might just be like, I need three days because you know, maybe there was a death in the family. For me, I’m like, Okay, bring them down. And we’ll do some like how to research properly. Maybe I’ll do you know, something on social media, something on fake and fake news or missing disinformation. Uh, maybe I do a Dave sketchnoting because I’ve done that too, that I work like the entire day, every two classes down every period and I teach them usually sort of a month out of like, finals. They say as you’re about to start studying, here’s a here’s a strategy that might be helpful for you. And I have the day of scheduling. And I just started teach kids the basics. And I’ve had kids come back and walk around the library at this one kid was drawing these beautiful sketch notes. I’m like, Oh, how long have you been doing this? Like, oh, no, just since like you taught me last week. But she was really artistic. And this is for her, she goes, I’m going to totally be able to remember all the stuff from my history and my grade 10 History exam. Because now it’s I’m so visual, and this just works religion. It hadn’t even occurred to her to keep notes that way. Right? And so there’s, you can really lean hard on on a teacher librarian and build that, that relationship. It’s It’s so cute. Like, I have a mentor for a first year teacher, well, she’s a second year now. But she comes down all the time. And she’s like, Okay, here’s the next unit. And she just wants to talk it out. And you know, I have 20 plus years of knowledge stored up and, and because I’ve seen in this role, so many other things that other people are doing, like I haven’t just been in the study, you know, the, the, you know, blinders on, close your door, my classroom, we’re exposed to a lot like, which is why it’s a big reason I let people just use the space. Like there’s a lot of Teacher Librarians are like, Nope, it’s only for programming. If you’re not going to partner with me. You’re not coming in, I’m like, oh, no, no, no, no, because I love for them to come in. And I sit and I like watch a lesson or I’ve just have listened to what they’re doing. And I grow so much, right? It’s sort of you know, that have you ever had a pineapple chart in a class where, or in a school? Have you ever done the walkthrough days? Right, that’s, that’s my job all day, every day is watching other people and how they react, how they teach how they treat students, like ways that they like, I’ve seen some really gifted teachers, talk to students who would otherwise be really challenging, like, just go to the office or whatever, and, and see how they handle just behavior management even is just so huge. Like, it’s I’m really fortunate to have the position I do because it’s PD all day, every day. It’s it’s fantastic.

Ixchell Reyes
So Jen, obviously, there’s so much that you could share with us. And we’re very lucky to have you today, we’re definitely going to have to hit you up for an episode on sketchnoting. Because I think that in itself, Brent and I always talk about how we think the tools that we know and are familiar with everybody knows, but actually there’s just a group every year that doesn’t know about it hasn’t heard about it, and maybe some people need refreshers. And so we’re definitely going to have to ask you back on the show. So right now let’s go ahead and

Brent Warner
jump right in to move I’m going to help

Ixchell Reyes
you move transition this morning.

Brent Warner
All right. Yeah. So lots of stuff to think about and let’s Alright, so Jen, every time we do a thing called Fun finds, and we try and find something fun so we’ll start off this is just anything that’s kind of making you happy or this been enjoyable or whatever it is recently and so Ixchell will start with her choices here.

Ixchell Reyes
Did you say “e” shell?

Brent Warner
E shell. I don’t know why Ixchell, I don’t know why. I noticed that as soon as I said, maybe I’m hanging out with Canadians too much these days.

You’re glitching

Yeah, well, I was like, it came out of my mouth. I’m like, that doesn’t sound right.

Jen Giffen
The emphAsis is on the wrong syLAble (laughter).

Brent Warner
Summer break, man, I don’t need to think about anything, dude. It’s just like, let’s just hang out…

Ixchell Reyes
Pool Boy Brent (laughter)

Brent Warner
All right, so Ixchell, you start us off what’s your

Ixchell Reyes
So my fun side is and I hope I’m pronouncing this correctly. It’s yeah, Tay, London coconut setting powder. It is cruelty free and it’s vegan. It’s just a translucent powder, very light. You use it on your over your makeup to set it. And I like products that are easy on the skin. And this was a brand that I found I don’t know where I found it. But then I tried a couple of other products and they’re a little bit pricey for me, but I thought that this was worth I’ve loved it so far. And here in Texas, it’s humid and sticky and so wearing makeup just feels really gross. But this powder has just been it’s kind of been life saving and it doesn’t cake or add any heaviness to your face so that’s Yeah teh London coconut setting powder

Brent Warner
So sorry to be ignorant here but what does “setting makeup” mean? I know I’m being a dude, but but I think there’s other people who might not know.

Ixchell Reyes
Yeah, so usually, you know you, we put different products on our faces, different layers of things. It could be your SPF, or it could be your foundation and sometimes it just feels like it’s melting off or it can you know if you’re wearing a mask or if you’re touching your face, it rubs off on your skin or clothing with the powder it sets it so it’s sort of like I don’t know It doesn’t it doesn’t come off as

Brent Warner
Oh, so it’s like setting concrete? Like like putting the chemicals in.

Jen Giffen
Exactly. Sometimes that’s what it feels like to wear makeup.

Ixchell Reyes
Yeah, and if you see someone with a concrete face, they’re wearing the wrong kind of setting powder. Okay,

Brent Warner
I’ll leave it at that. So mine is going to be a TV show on on Hulu & FX right now it’s a new mini series called pistol. And it’s about it’s the history of the Sex Pistols from the very beginning until I actually haven’t gotten to the end but I’m assuming it’s gonna end around the end of the Sex Pistols when seditious died but it’s been super cool like it’s it’s just an interesting dramatic telling of the whole story from very early on all the way until you know through their success and with you know they’re all They’re crazy stories and you know I I was never a big Sex Pistols fan like you know my my punk rock bonafides come up with through different different zones in the punk rock world but but of course like it’s such a big band like so well known so influential for that type of music and everything so I just thought it was really interesting plus it’s a kind of a cool look at like 70s UK and being able to see like all the weird stuff that was going on. And then a final seal of approval is that Johnny Rotten himself said that it’s absolutely atrocious and he and so when when Johnny Rotten Plex trash on something about Johnny Rotten, you know, it’s probably worth watching. So that is pistol it’s it’s only I think like six or seven episodes. So if you’re if you’re up for that, it might be an interesting summer watch. Jen, what do you got?

Jen Giffen
Okay, so I was originally going to share these like collapsible crates that I have that make picking up everything like my groceries and traveling so good. But then I remembered something else. It’s it’s techie, but not techie. So it’s called Radiooooo.

Brent Warner
“Have you heard of it?” (laughter)

Jen Giffen
“We just got this thing called Radio in Canada, it’s got AM and FM” (laughter)

Brent Warner
The tech moves slowly north.

Jen Giffen
You know what, you you’re gonna have international guests if you keep making fun of us. (laughter)

Brent Warner
Oh we can talk about a lot of problems here, too. OK, Radiooo – with an “Ou”?

Jen Giffen
Os. It’s radio with five O’s, which sounds pretty good. Yep. So it’s radio again, I’m gonna put it in the chat. It’s radiooooo.com. And hold on, I’m gonna throw it in here. The ideas. I’ve only played with it a little. But I thought oh, this is kind of cool. And it’s, they call it the musical time machine. So you can go in to radio. And you can pick any country in the world. And you can pick any decade and it will play you music from that country in that decade. That is awesome. So I’m thinking if especially given you know, the theme of your podcast, if you wanted to have students, you know, share music that reminds them of being oh my gosh, parents or grandparents used to play, they don’t have every country they don’t have every decade it is building slowly. But it was really cool to me. Like when I first discovered it, I was working with music teachers on this like music culture assignment that they did. And I found it like two weeks later. And as it were, was this week, we were looking at stuff. But it’s really cool. You join with an account, I think you can log in, I think I just use my Google or Apple or something to get into it. Maybe Facebook, but you you don’t have to have an account. And I can go in and I was like okay, so if I want to look up like British India in the 1930s, it will all of a sudden just start playing, it’ll tell you a little bit about the artist and tell you who discovered it. So it’s you know, people from all over the world. It’s a crowd sourced, and it plays this music. And I think it’s a really cool way to hear about cultures around the world to see music development to show like the roots of music when we really, you know, if you know, a band was really influenced by you know, let’s say I can’t even think so like African tribal music in the 1950s Why not go back and listen to more than I think you can discover some really cool artists and as a fan of music and especially new music that I’ve never heard before. It’s just a it’s a really cool rabbit hole to fall down.

Ixchell Reyes
Oh, that is really cool. Because you know, sometimes students will say, Oh, I like Mexican music because it sounds like Arabic and you’re like, wait a minute, you’re picking up beats and then you know, students from places in Africa will say oh, that has African beats and so you can start to see that we’re all you know, tied here in there. Exactly. But Jen, could you share about your collapsible crates (laughter)

Brent Warner
“I need to know about the crates!” (laughter)

Jen Giffen
Ok, so the crates are plastic and the ends – so they’re rectangular – and the ends fold and I got them on Amazon. They’re called I got them on Amazon Canada, but they’re Readsky like r-e-a-d-s-k-y folding crates, okay, they come in a pack of four and they were $10 each. So for $40 Canadian, which is about $32 American I’m gonna say right now the ends come in. And then there’s they sort of like fold like almost like an X in and they go from like full crates that are forget the dimensions of the movie probably says in the thing home Let me open it up, the dimensions of them are not going to show Oh, of course now my Amazon is not playing nicely with me anyway, I want to say they’re maybe 15 or 18 inches by about 12 Why? And they collapse down to nothing. So I can take a whole stack of them. Like one box would be like about six of them stacked. But now I can carry things around. So like for a classroom. They’re really fantastic. We have a pop up tent trailer and her name is Trailer Swift. So we take them into Trailer Swift a lot, to carry things back and forth for grocery pickups because we do our groceries that we do pick up at Walmart since before pandemic, like we were picking up groceries online since before it was in fact beginning at the beginning of the pandemic when you couldn’t get at least up here like you could not you cannot get a spot because like they were like you know all taken we went back to Walmart and they were like oh my gosh, we were so worried about you guys we haven’t seen you in a month we’re like oh my as norm is to cheers the Griffins are to the local Walmart this is a problem anyway we we we use them for absolutely everything. So if you are like me and are a maximalist I don’t call myself a hoarder because it’s not messy. I just have a lot of stuff that’s nicely organized. They’re fantastic. And with the kids like my my boys play baseball, so we like just pile everything into one of those and we have it but then when baseball is over, I can collapse it and use it for something else. Or like, I don’t know, they’re just I love them so much.

Ixchell Reyes
That sounds like something to keep in the back of my car. Because that’s carrying things from from room to room, and you never really know when you need that.

Jen Giffen
And they don’t take up a lot of space!

Ixchell Reyes
That sounds cool.

Brent Warner
Love it. Tons of stuff to check out. All right.

Ixchell Reyes
Yep. You could win a one of a kind DIESOL pin by leaving us a review on Apple podcasts. And it would be the first one for 2022. And we’re already halfway through the year so we can need one for this year. To review. Yeah, please review us. If you’re giving us a shout out any other way tag us on social media. We are on all the platforms.

Brent Warner
All right. We are also on Patreon. If you want to do some support for the show, and of course you can listen to other episodes@DIESOL.org Slash 64 The number 64 Or you can listen at voice Ed Canada. You can find us on Twitter the show is at DIESOL pod and I am at Brent G Warner.

Ixchell Reyes
I’m Ixchell at IXY underscore Pixy, that’s i x y underscore pi x y and you can find Jen…

Brent Warner
Yeah. Where are you Jen? Where are you all over the place?

Jen Giffen
I am at @VirtualGiff. That’s a hard G and two F’s pretty much everywhere on social media.

Brent Warner
@VirtualGiff Awesome. Thank you so much.

Jen Giffen
In French thank you is Merci so Merci for tuning in to the DIESOL podcast.

Ixchell Reyes
Thank you