Episode Transcript
Ixchell Reyes 0:00
The DIESOL podcast

Brent Warner 0:02
Developing Innovation in English as a Second or Other Language,

Ixchell Reyes 0:06
Episode 83 interview with JoJo chat GPT in the ESL classroom

Brent Warner 0:27
Welcome to DIESOL This is episode 83. We are your hosts. I’m Brent Warner.

Ixchell Reyes 0:32
And I’m Ixchell Reyes. Brent. Hey, how’s it going? Did I tell it that I tell you that I’m no longer going to be co host on the DIESOL podcast?

Brent Warner 0:43
No, you didn’t tell me that. Is that a…

Ixchell Reyes 0:45
April Fool’s! It’s April 1, where I’m at… Yeah, sorry. You’re still in the past.

Brent Warner 0:53
We’re, we’re a little ahead on our recording. So by the time people hear this, like, what is going on here?

Ixchell Reyes 1:00
Yeah, that was not funny, Ixchell. Okay, whatever. I was like, So Brent.

Brent Warner 1:04
I was all excited. I’m like, Woohoo.

Ixchell Reyes 1:05
What? I thought we were a team!

Brent Warner 1:09
April Fool’s in return.

Ixchell Reyes 1:13
So you just got back from CUE? How was that?

Brent Warner 1:16
Oh, it was good. It was good. Really good. Lots of good conversations. We

Ixchell Reyes 1:21
I saw ChatGPT is like all the rage.

Brent Warner 1:25
Yeah, there weren’t a lot of chat GPT conversations because of the well, so sorry, everybody was talking about it. But there weren’t a lot of sessions on it. Because the way that the timing worked between between applications, when it when it came out, it didn’t really, you know, there wasn’t a lot of opportunity. So I kind of worked with cue to make, because I said we have to have this conversation, people are going to be talking about it. And so there were a few after the presentation sessions that they open up afterward, and mine was one of them. And it did go really well. There was a lot of people, people pouring out into the hallways, all that stuff. And the conversation is just big, you know. And

Ixchell Reyes 2:10
friends with a celebrity.

Brent Warner 2:15
Nothing, nothing like that. But but but you know, I mean, it was it was kind of tricky, because it was like it was actually one of the things where I was in a small, medium sized room, you know, and it said, Well, there’s going to be a lot of people coming to this, and I got people telling me, hey, I want to come and check that out. And I was like, come early, because I don’t think there’s going to be spots. And then that did turn out to be the case.

Ixchell Reyes 2:36
How big was your? How big was your copier conference room?

Brent Warner 2:41
I think there was something like maybe like 120 seats or something like that? I’m not sure. But there’s full Yeah, there should have been like, there’s some of the rooms have like, closer to 250 or 300 of the bigger the bigger, you know, set rooms. So anyways, all of this is to say definitely the conversation is big. People are incredibly interested. There’s you know, there’s no end of like, where to talk about AI and how it’s going to fit in with teaching and all of those things. And so, right, so yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s just going to be bigger and bigger as we keep going.

Ixchell Reyes 3:17
Yeah, so I think as of this month chat GPT is six months old. Yeah, yeah. And it’s just revolutionize education, like writing and education and language learning and, and it is just appropriate that I happened. I’ve made some really good friends here in Taiwan. One of them is our guest today. His name is Jojo. And he’s a colleague of mine. He’s teaching English as well. So I’m let me give him the official introduction. When and the reason is that he’s using chat GPT. So I was like, what you’re embracing chat GPT in the language classroom, and it was brand new when I first started out in arrived here in February. So three months after, you know, there it all changed the world. Okay, so, Jojo is a major in the ROC military and he’s been teaching English for specific purposes and English Literature at the Air Force Institute of Technology technical training center for almost three years. He enjoys teaching students English, and he devotes himself to finding a better way of teaching and engaging his students. He tries to fix problems where students might lack confidence and interest in learning English. He knows the feeling well himself as a language learner. And he takes his experience as an exchange student overseas for six years and applies all of this in the language classroom. He loves to play music and act in his classes because he believes this can help students fit in with the culture and English. Learn English more naturally. So Jojo,

Brent Warner 4:59
Welcome Jojo – how are you?

Jojo 5:05
I’m fine. Thank you. And it’s really my pleasure to join this broadcast.

Brent Warner 5:11
We’re very happy to have you. So I’m, you know, hearing Ixchell give this bio and I’m like, oh, like sounds like fun, you’re gonna be playing music acting like you’ve got a really interactive classroom that you’re that you’re working with, with your students. That sounds like,

Jojo 5:28
yes, because traditionally, we have a cause, you know, like, a student, like sit on a say, to listen to the teachers. So it’s less interactive in Taiwan. So I want to change this kind of environment to more active for student teachers.

Brent Warner 5:46
Oh, that’s really interesting. Yeah. We were just doing in my class, we were doing a unit about Eastern education and Western education and kind of comparing how the systems work, right. And that’s one of the conversations is like, a lot of times they’re saying in eastern education, it’s very, be quiet, follow the rules, don’t do anything, you know, like, just, you know, just be ready. And it sounds like you’re trying to help shift that to a more active setup, huh?

Jojo 6:16
True. Yes, I want to teach this. Because a personal experience, I learned English is very traditional way. Like, we always have to learn vocabularies, grammars. And then that’s it. We don’t have much, you know, learning about the cultures, we will learn English, but not much about cultures. And the last why I want to bring the music or drama into my class. So the student will have a better understanding to English and English cultures.

Brent Warner 6:49
X. Excellent. Yeah. Yeah.

Ixchell Reyes 6:51
So So Jojo, one of the conversations that we first had when I met you, and I don’t know if you remember her, but because I met so many teachers at the beginning, I had a hard time remember everybody’s names, but I just remember that you mentioned, ChatGPT. And I was just, well, first, I was surprised, because back home, we had, the conversation among my colleagues has just started the conversation. And California is happening with the conversation in Texas with my colleagues just started. So I was really excited to see how you embrace chat GPT. And I’m just wondering what so many headlines where we are seeing chat GPT banned in so many places, schools, universities, and in different countries, or even I’m not sure how, what how it’s being received in Taiwan, but what made you want to use it in your language classroom?

Jojo 7:49
Oh, well, in my opinion, that that technology always changed the way of our lives. So therefore, the charter beauty is the next, we should embrace it, rather than refuse it. Sooner or later, we are going to use a fake name, just like we used Facebook or iTunes, etc. So I wish my student have the wisdom and the right attitudes through, you know, to judge to charge GDP and use it correctly. You know, because the experience I used to be charged up and I think that they have very good constructor of of the articles in written English, so students could learn. Learn something from that.

Brent Warner 8:34
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, as I’ve been having conversations about it almost every day since consensus came out. And I think the more that students learn how to interact with it, they’re going to start finding more and more ways to, to use it for their own learning. Right. So are you are you using it directly inside of your classroom? Or are you? Are you kind of talking about it and having students use it outside? And I guess that kind of connects to how are you introducing it to your students?

Jojo 9:13
Oh, I introduced my student first in my class, and I will ask them, What is Open AI? And I just introduced these new technologies. And I asked them to use it to train itself to spool it up and have a first hand experience to do to know what to charge up and how to use it. So I just list like 10 topic and ask them to use charge GDP to make a script script for for land speaking, speaking. Speaking Test.

Brent Warner 9:53
Oh, tell me about that. So as a script for their speaking test,

Jojo 9:57
yes. So at least like different topics, so they have to use ChatGPT to make close contact and under to absorb those contact to make their own.

Brent Warner 10:12
Okay, okay, so what does that end up looking like for the students? How are how are they engaging? Or how are they connecting with it there

Jojo 10:20
Well that’s already interesting because you know, this new thing new stuff and delay. And they found difficult to to make a good one a good a good contact because they doesn’t know how to promote the right or correct word for promoting Correct. Correct informations. So it’s just I think the learning progress is is it is good for them?

Ixchell Reyes 10:54
So do you find that so I’m I’m guessing that sometimes your students are also learning maybe not to choose right away the first thing that chat GPT gifts, some have you found that they have to read carefully or that they have to select carefully because I know that you said at the beginning, you hope that your students will use it wisely. And so I’m curious about the experience that your students are having when they first interact with chat EPP.

Jojo 11:29
Right, so let us experience the chart gives is like, link, copy them, they copy the contact, but then use the like 80% of Locanda I didn’t change much. But I tell him to you know, you can use all of it, you just use part of it and make your own. And I think that’s a better way for students to to use it.

Brent Warner 11:53
And have you have you found that your students because I introduced it to my students in my class, and one of the first things they started doing was trying to translate. So they were like, Oh, can I cannot talk in, you know, Farsi can kind of talk to me in Chinese. And they figured out how to start prompting it so that it was actually responding to them in their languages as well. Have you used it for with your students for translation? Or have you only used it for English to English use?

Jojo 12:26
I actually did both. Because then use it later. Then they have to translate to English. So. So yes, we didn’t in the class,

Ixchell Reyes 12:38
I was gonna say, do you find that your friends are able to tell between the better, I guess, you know, I’ve prompted chat GPT to tell me things, but then I’m not satisfied. And so I want another another response? Are your students going through multiple responses in chat? GPT? Before they select one, or are they just choosing the first one?

Jojo 13:03
In my observation, they choose the first one? Yeah. I think it’s really harmful and to to to make the adjustment. So I think there’s still need for learn to learn how to use it.

Brent Warner 13:18
Yeah, I think that’s still what everybody is kind of going through right now is really like understanding how to talk to chat GPT, and how to get the most use out of it. One of the regular conversations that I that I’m having these days is when, for example for us as as language teachers, we might have expertise in certain areas, right. And so when ChatGPT gives us content, we have enough knowledge to look at it and then analyze it and figure out what parts are right and what parts are wrong. But sometimes the students don’t have that level of expert knowledge, right. And so there’s there’s a different gap between the people who know a lot of stuff, or they have an expert level of understanding so they can analyze it. And the students who don’t, you know, who are still trying to learn these things. How do you talk to your students about that to be to try to be maybe critical thinkers about what chat GPT is producing while they’re using it is or is there a way that you’ve been kind of helping your students figure that out?

Jojo 14:33
Oh, well, because this we’re still exploring the ChatGPT. So in this pie, I haven’t have a answer yet. But still, I think as you say, like critical thinking is important. And so I will ask, why not, you know, to more detail, more detail about the contact the topic they learn you So it’s not only just found the chat GP but also other things to the topics.

Brent Warner 15:07
Have you have you used it for, for grammar, for example, like the things like they can get training or get it to teach them things that, that maybe you could teach them, of course, but like, but you can say, hey, you take this home, and you can also get an instant response. Have you? Have you played with some of the fundamental English skills inside of chat? GPT?

Jojo 15:31
Yes, yes, I asked them, if you have any grammar problems, as charged up, he will always give you a correct answer. I mean, almost the correct answers, but you’ve had any problems just come back to me. So I think this is good interaction between teachers, chargifi, and students. So teachers, because you know, we have we don’t, we only have 24 hours, we can, who cannot spend all the time to student per student can use the use, use that. So let’s use the charge duty to learn this to the grammars, and they infer they have any problems, they do come back to us and we explain in Chinese or in English.

Ixchell Reyes 16:14
So Jojo, I’m curious, because I’m curious about teaching in Taiwan, and then using chat GPT. One of the I guess one of the challenges as a language teacher here is that you’re teaching English, but the students are living in a Chinese speaking country. And I’m wondering if you if you have noticed that using chat GPT helps students? Is that something positive for them? Does it help them to break out of that? I guess, tendency to go back to Chinese, have you noticed any difference? Or any improvement in the way that the their language environment learning language environment is?

Jojo 17:05
A my opinion, I think that is is doesn’t change much, though, is because the student and myself still learning from it. So it’s really hard for people to change their learning habit. Yeah, so I think they still need to know how to use it and do how to accept it, those kinds of things.

Brent Warner 17:29
That’s, that’s a great point, Joe, Joe, because I think I think that’s one of the things that people are getting, you know, scared about is like, well, oh, that’s just gonna do all the work for them. But, but our human brains still need time to learn the language, right? It’s not it’s not overnight. For us, even though the technology is amazing. It doesn’t mean that if we’re studying a language, that magically tomorrow, we’re going to be so much better than we were without a tool like this. Yes, yes. So Joe, Joe would follow on this. Sorry, I’m interested a little bit in also your colleagues and how they’re reacting, are they? What if one, are you talking about chatty PT with your colleagues? And are they a lot of my colleagues or, you know, teachers that I talked to are nervous or scared about it? Right, kind of, like you mentioned at the beginning, I’m interested to know how your colleagues in Taiwan are also responding. Are they doing the same thing? Like we shouldn’t do this? Or are they trying things like you’re doing? Or how are people? How are other teachers that you know, responding right now?

Jojo 18:36
Well, for now, I think that the follow young teachers I mean, that how do I put this? For most of the young teachers that they are willing to try to you try to be charging in our classes, and use it as for, you know, like, making exam papers. So, yes, it’s easy for them as a tool to help and to make, to to me to do but for all the other teachers. Lessing is different difficult to learn to, to understand and to know these technologies. And I think this problems like, like when I was in England, I started my master’s degree I have my topic is use the virtual reality in higher education. Yes, and the students thing is very interesting. But most of teachers think that is just like a toy. Yeah, so it’s like it’s not really useful. But like, like the trend, traditional teachers, English teaching teachers, that thing is really useless. But on the other hand, Tech Tech technology teachers they think is very Interesting, what’s your uses, as you know, like we can to, to expand our visions, and to see as to use, as you know, like the Google map. So when we’re traveling, so we can use it as a as a tool.

Ixchell Reyes 20:18
Right. I think you know, it’s interesting because Brent Brent and I will have conversations about new tools all the time. And I, when I first found out about church, BTW, I was I was sharing with my colleagues, and they were all there, I would say, a younger generation, although we’re getting older, the younger generation, but they were all excited. And one of my friends, one of my colleagues, he’s, he’s a different generation, I would say, maybe 20 years older, and and he said, Oh, my gosh, just it’s gonna, what did he say? He made a comment about ending our jobs and more, it was more of a fear rather than excitement. And of course, you know, it, it’s as with other tools, right, it says, with touchscreen phones and getting rid of buttons on certain devices, or eye recognition technology or facial recognition software. But Brent and I are constantly saying, what are your colleagues doing? What are you doing? And so that was one of the questions I had asked you before. It’s like, what are people doing in Taiwan? I want to know, how are they using it? And it turns out, the older generation seems to fear it. In both countries, yeah.

Brent Warner 21:37
Yeah, that’s kind of thing here. Seems to seems to be the kind of the common response, right. So, so Jojo, I’m interested here. So there are a lot of the times we’re having two parts of the conversation, right. One part is, how are we using it with students? Right? And then the other part, like, so like, how are we having students use chat? GPT? And then the other part is, how are we as teachers using chat GPT to help us with whatever we’re doing in our work? Have you used have you used these tools, any of the AI bots, to to help you, you know, prepare for lessons or to create content or make, I don’t know, quizzes, whatever else you’re doing, have you? Have you done? Kind of your preparation and office work using chat? GPT?

Jojo 22:34
Yes, I did. Like two weeks ago, I use ChatGPT to, like, created quizzes for my students. And I think it’s really useful because you can put any contact in the ChatGPT. And then I will make the section selection as for you. So it’s really convenient for me to make to do a quiz with ChatGPT?

Brent Warner 23:05
Yeah, I found the same thing.

Ixchell Reyes 23:08
I gonna say, right, that was like, the first thing that I did, oh, my gosh, I can enter this text from the book. And I want to see if it can make a true or false quiz or multiple choice quiz. And when I didn’t like the quiz, I just kept making another make. Yeah, but I, I think that Jojo, you’re the, one of the points about GPT is that it’s efficient. Yes, it’s very, maybe a more efficient way of coming up with something. And if you really don’t like it, you don’t have to take the whole thing. You can modify what it gave you.

But they’re still so false when you come out with loads of questions. So you have to check each question by yourself. Yeah, yes.

Brent Warner 23:56
Yeah, I think a lot of the conversation is about you know, like, some people were using it to kind of do all the work, right. So it’s just like, just do it and then find that it’s done. Right. But I think that there’s also a good part here where you’re saying, Well, hold on a second, let me let me use it to create something and then I’ll think about it and I have a good kickstart, right, a good, a good starting place, that post puts me up a level. So I’ve kind of already moved down the road of the project a little bit, whether that’s creating new content or making a quiz or, you know, creating a dialogue for students to practice or whatever else it is. I’ve found that when I’m staring at a blank screen, for example, on my Google Docs, and I’m like, What am I going to write and then I sit there for a long time thinking about it, but now with kind of chat GPT it can get me started and then I’ll actually still spend quite a lot of time editing it and changing it around and fit Seeing these things or getting rid of parts or whatever else it is, but it gets me started, right? And that’s, that’s kind of the big part. For me that makes a lot of differences instead of that. I don’t know. It’s like, like writer’s block, right, like a creativity block before you get started, and then you can start doing in developing and creating your work. Right. So Jojo, what are your future thinking? Like? What are the things that you want to try to do with these AI tools and things? You know, like, I think a lot of us have ideas, but we haven’t tried things yet. What are some of the things and just because we haven’t had time for everything, right? What are some of the things that you’re thinking about? Or maybe you want to try using it with your students? Do you have any, any ideas that of future uses?

Jojo 25:53
I think I will use it for my students in writing skills. Yes, because I think they charge if they can write, like, really good contact for my students to learn. Because I think it is really relatable for them, too. Two, two, to learn good. Infrastructure from ChatGPT?

Brent Warner 26:21
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I think there’s going to be a lot of use for writing. I think people have to figure out some of that writing and how it’s going to work with it. But But I definitely agree, that’ll be good too.

Ixchell Reyes 26:38
All right. I don’t know if I have any other questions for this session, JoJo, but please keep us updated on any kind of other use, or anything because right now we’re at the experimenting stage right with GPT. Were even learning how to use it. For us as teachers, I know that. For example, I wanted I think, what did I say the other day, somebody asked chat GPT what a what? what was best for a language learning student and chat GPT broke it down. And that may not, you know, that it’s kind of cool. There’s so many things that now I don’t need to go to the library to get the most updated research on what’s out there. I could just ask chat GPT Hey, what’s, uh, what’s the NET language activity that I can do using these verbs, and it might give me something and it might not be what I want. But as you said, you it’s good to check and then it might give you an idea or a starting point. So keep us updated. I’m glad that you’re experimenting and not shying away from new technologies. And hopefully you might get other colleagues on board and we’ll see where it takes us in a few months.

Brent Warner 27:55
Yes, JoJo, keep pushing. Keep pushing the teachers in Taiwan to try it out. Okay,

Jojo 28:00
I will.

Brent Warner 28:02
Alright, let’s jump over

Ixchell Reyes 28:08
All right, it is time for our fun finds. And guess what? Today I have Taiwanese dry new goals. I didn’t know there was a just such a thing as dry noodles.

Brent Warner 28:20
What is dry too? Is that different than ramen like dry? Like well, when are like monotone ramen?

Ixchell Reyes 28:27
Yeah, I thought when when when my students said teacher you gotta try dry noodles. I thought dry noodles was like the package like the ramen. You know how kids like to open the ramen and just eat it like that? Nope. It is. Cooked noodle. Similar to Udaan noodle, noodle noodle and but it doesn’t have it doesn’t come in a soup. Or it’s just lightly I don’t know, marinated in the sauce. But they are called dry. But they’re so delicious. And I am constantly craving Taiwanese dry noodles they are delicious. I don’t know how to find them in the States. I’m sure in California you can probably find them somewhere but they’re delicious. So if you’re in Taiwan, or somewhere where you can find Taiwanese dry noodles you need to try them do the

Brent Warner 29:17
Does the package actually say Taiwanese dry noodles or is there like

Ixchell Reyes 29:21
no there is no package Do you have you order them from a little from like the like a night I don’t know if a night market but from just like a little food shops here in Taiwan there is a lot of No you got to know people okay and they have to own like a restaurant and they have that so but I think the Asian food festival whenever they have it in San Gabriel that you might be able to find them there. Okay, so cool. Good luck.

Brent Warner 29:48
Alright. Dry noodles. So mine is a weighted eye pillow. So I think you know I’m I go to these yoga classes in the morning right and, and the last session, you know that at the end of the session you do your, the corpse pose, right you just lay down for a couple of minutes and you relax. But sometimes the or my teacher walks around and, and we’ll leave a little these weighted eye pillows. So it’s just a, it’s just a little sack, like a bit like a beanbag sack that you put right over your eyes. And it’s, it’s just very relaxing. I mean, I know of course, it’s at the end of the yoga session. So regardless, it’s relaxing, but I was like, I’m gonna order one for my house for just for taking naps or just for taking a 10 minute rest or something because there’s something very soothing about the gentle pressure on top of your eyes. My wife has a weighted blanket, you know, and she loves that like the you know, like the that pressure I have one. Yeah, that too. Yeah, relaxing. Yeah. And so this is kind of like the same thing but on your eyes and it just kind of is a stress reliever and you can find them on Amazon all sorts of different ones out there. But some of them are scented with lavender and some of them are unscented, but a weighted eye pillow. That’s my my fun find

Ixchell Reyes 31:05
it. You can find them in your in your pantry. Take some

Brent Warner 31:09
A bag of beans?

Ixchell Reyes 31:09
A mini ziplock bag and put and put rice in.

Brent Warner 31:13
Yeah, yeah. So if you have a little bag of rice, I suppose you could do it to just I wouldn’t put it with the plastic bag because that seems like it would probably break the air flow into your skin. You know, but But yeah, it’s probably fine.

Ixchell Reyes 31:30
What have you been doing? Uh, putting a sack of rice on my face? Yeah.

Brent Warner 31:33
Simple. All right, Jojo. Do you have a fun find?

Jojo 31:39
So recently, I have watched a series called Violet Evergarden is on Netflix. Okay, is there a study in the main series, that captive audience with beautiful animation and compelling stories and emotion emotional depths. The series is a masterpiece of his journal, and his combination of stunning facial and combined character make is must watch for anime fans.

Brent Warner 32:07
Nice. Okay, so get your

Ixchell Reyes 32:10
you’ve got your anime, your dry noodles and your pillow and you’re good to go.

Brent Warner 32:16
Yeah, you got it all. Alright, thanks so much. We’re gonna we’re gonna wrap it up and jump on out.

Ixchell Reyes 32:27
All right, if you’re giving us a shout out in any way, tag us on social media, we are on other platforms. Thank you for listening, as always.

Brent Warner 32:34
Yes. Thank you for listening. We are on Patreon. We have a Buy, buy us a coffee on the website if you’re so inclined. And you know we have shownotes here too. So you can find links to all the things we’re talking about. You can find links to some of our previous AI conversations as well. Those will be in there too. And you can find this episode at DIESOL.org/83, that’s the number 83 And of course you can listen to us at VoiceEd Canada that’s vo ice d.ca. Twitter still on Twitter, the shows at DIESOL pod and I am at @BrentGWarner. Ixchell, you’re so you’re still kind of there.

Ixchell Reyes 33:16
I’m still on Twitter. I’m still on Twitter. And I’m at @Ixy_Pixy. That’s I x y underscore P I X Y. And if you have any questions for Jojo, or you want to share with him what you are doing with chat GPT or are overseas and need some ideas. Jojo, is there a place where people can find you?

Jojo 33:43
You can contact my email.

Brent Warner 33:47
what’s your what’s your email?

Jojo 33:50
Do I write down or do I say it?

Brent Warner 33:52
You can say it.

Ixchell Reyes 33:54
You can say it

Jojo 33:55
okay, (unclear)

Brent Warner 34:04
Okay. We will also have that written down on the show notes. That’ll be a hard one for people to remember as they’re as they’re riding their bikes or jogging, jogging along the beach side or wherever they’re at. So we’ll get that right on the website. Yeah. Okay, so Jojo, this is the part where we get you to say the in Taiwanese part

Ixchell Reyes 34:30
okay, in Taiwanese, thank you is to-siā and to-siā for tuning into the DIESOL podcast.

Brent Warner 34:40
All right. Thanks, everybody. Thanks, Jojo.

Jojo 34:43
Thank you

Join us and ESOL instructor Maj. Jojo, who incorporates ChatGPT into his language classes for EFL learners in Taiwan.

Jojo has been teaching English for Specific Purposes and English literature at the Air Force Institute of Technology Technical Training Center for three years.

Jojo enjoys teaching students English and he devotes himself to finding a better way of teaching and engaging his students. He tries to fix problems in which students lack confidence and interest in learning English. He knows the feeling well himself, as a language learner, and takes his experience as an exchange student abroad for 6 years.  He loves to play music and act in his class because he believes this can help students fit in with the culture and learn English more naturally.

Fun Finds 

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